Idea: Research Formula

Ideas for improving Starport:GE

Moderators: Moleman, Kwijibo, Luna

Do you like this idea??

Yes
19
79%
No
5
21%
 
Total votes: 24

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Thavy
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Idea: Research Formula

Post by Thavy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:11 am

This just came to mind for me within 5 mins and personally i think it is ingenious, heres a way to solve MONEY, RESEARCH and BAD colonies!!!!!

My theory:

Where the research box is at, click on the research box and instead of bringing up the Starpedia page for what researches can be developed, why not bring up a brand new window that would display a GIANT tech tree of all researches.

There will be all level 1 researches available, but it would cost either of the following: Cash amount to research, Resources cost, Or both.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

The branches are as follow:

Resource: Ore, Ane, Org, Med, Oil, Ura, Equ, Spi (lvl 1-5 each)
Military: Mil Tra, Adv Areo, Ind. Comp (lvl 1-5 each)
Colony: Chan De, Wea Pre, Adv Arc, Com Mark, Sto Mark (lvl 1-5 each)

Im missing others but thats what i can think of off of the top of my head.

Then when you click on the research, the crack team of scientists will begin researching that and there will be a time limit on when it will be completed (approx times vary depending on where the research slide is at)

Each time you want to level a research up to the next level, it would cost you double, then double again or something along those lines, and the time limit would increase each level up.
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Example:
You clicked on research and you want to further develop Ore mining, its currently at level 1 and it cost 50,000credits to research and 100 of each resource (again either one or both), you click on it it will take 1 day on 100% research and gov on directorship. BAM research is complete you want to increase to lvl 2 cost you 100,000credits to research and or 200 of each research and it would be 2 days and so on and so forth.

The limit could be the same (max 10) or it could be increased
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Reasoning: This gives a TON of flexibility between players, and the creator of the starport game.....Players can now spend all of their excess money/resources on researches, instead of having to take chances on research and have stagnant planets, wasting time to develop a planet and redevelop it if it sux from the start. If the creator did impliment this he would save the game from being totally decimated by researches and colonies can be once more in the hands of colony developers and not in the hands of chance.....Im really serious about this idea, this would really shape the game back to becoming playable again.....i need you players to really consider this idea and help me to help save this game from utter demise like i am reading all over the forums.....VOTE NOW!!!!

Another possible feature, on rebangs the prices of the researches could be reduced by 1/2 to compensate for shortened time.
Last edited by Thavy on Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Freakazoid
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Post by Freakazoid » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:11 am

Nice idea, kind of what I suggested half a year ago :) Having some control over research would be nice.

On the side note, do you mind changing the font color? Orange is still too light for me to read :roll:

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Jwilson6
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Post by Jwilson6 » Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:14 am

meh as principle im not even going to bother reading until the font color is changed...


yes I know I can change it myself... but as I said, on principle

I feel like being an donkey right now though so u probably won't like what ill have to say anyway

Lev

Post by Lev » Sat Jan 12, 2008 12:45 pm

I just started playing again recently, and was a little upset by the fact that you could possibly build up a 10+k planet (without having yet fully grasped the "new" planet dynamics) and find that, because of a bad luck of the draw on research, the planet is bound to die, or will need constant monitoring.

You're telling me that a planet full of people can't figure out how to take care of themselves without having to have constant deliveries? Being able to choose the research that properly compliments a particular planet type would be a great leap forward for planet stability. Adding a premium to the capability of picking and choosing research is a good idea, although free random research should still be made available.

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Turkey
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Post by Turkey » Sat Jan 12, 2008 1:20 pm

That would lead to cookie-cutter colonies, which Toonces has expressly been trying to aviod for the last - I don't know - while. There'd need to be some trade-off; some researches have a chance to fail and you can't choose them again, for example.
Also, I wouldn't like to have to go back to my colony and click something every time they complete a tech, and nor would I be fond have pouring cash into the colony if I were playing a game with limited resources.

By the way, the turret building tech is Industrial Complex, and you missed Stock Market.

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Thavy
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Post by Thavy » Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:51 pm

thank you and ill update as i go then, and i do not see how this would encourage cookie cutter colonies?? how about figuring out how to apply better research and still somehow avoid the cookie cutter solution.

duece
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Post by duece » Sat Jan 12, 2008 9:34 pm

It wouldn't promote cookie cutter anything, just increase the odds for it not to suck. Like if i want strip mining on my earthlike, all i can do is give a boost to harvesting, which gives me a 1/6 chance of getting anything good, and i'd be running a 1/3 chance of getting spice mining (useless) or bacterial farming (disaster). So I don't see it as unbalanced.

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Talak.Winstar
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Post by Talak.Winstar » Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:09 pm

YAY! Another good idea from Thavy... GO THAVY! GO THAVY!

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dirt
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Post by dirt » Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:49 am

I agree 100 percent with this
example: lvl 5 spice mining on a desert........wtf?

duece
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Post by duece » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:12 am

dirt wrote:I agree 100 percent with this
example: lvl 5 spice mining on a desert........wtf?
that's awesome if you have commodities market... which almost never happens

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dirt
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Post by dirt » Sun Jan 13, 2008 2:16 am

robotchicken wrote:
dirt wrote:I agree 100 percent with this
example: lvl 5 spice mining on a desert........wtf?
that's awesome if you have commodities market... which almost never happens
You know out of 600 planets..............5 have commodities markets. Not that i ever used them anyway.

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cruzerall454
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Post by cruzerall454 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:38 am

sounds good to me. now you can do more of what you want.

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CaptKirk
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Post by CaptKirk » Sat Jan 19, 2008 4:15 pm

My only poblem with this is that I disagree with the concept of having to resource researches. Just resouring builds can be a tedious process, particularly for newer players, and would be even more difficult considering that you don't know exactly how long getting a research will take.

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Eternus101
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Post by Eternus101 » Sat Jan 19, 2008 9:04 pm

I agree...we don't need to give StarDestroyer something else to yell about.

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feenix
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Post by feenix » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:34 am

6 words: HELL YA It's A GOOD IDEA!!!! :)

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Thavy
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Post by Thavy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:21 am

I appologise this is very long but this is the breakdown i was suggesting, these are not permenant these can be adjusted accordingly

C: cash R: resources T: time till completion N: none
M:metal A:anerobes Me:medicine Org:organics O:oil U:uranium E:equipment S:spice
(Note: i redid this because i noticed it was majorly too long) it will be first level and last level only (doubles for cash, multiples of 2x for time, and 50 or 100 increases for resources)
Resources:
Strip Mining -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
Bacteria Farming -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
Native Plants -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
Geothermal Refrigeration -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
Drilling -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
Spectroscopes -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
Advanced Engineering -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
Spice Mining -
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours

Resources are a lesser of the other researches although equally important, they are only meant for profit gain and nothing more. The prices are estimated accordingly.

Military:
Advanced Aerodynamics -
Level 1: C: 50,000 R: M/100 U/50 E/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C:800,000 R: M/500 U/250 E/250 T: 10 hours
Industrial Complex -
Level 1: C:75,000 R: M/100 U/50 E/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 1,200,000 R: M/500 U/250 E/250 T: 10 hours
Military Tradition -
Level 1: C: 100,000 R: M/100 U/50 E/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 1,600,000 R: M/500 U/250 E/250 T: 10 hours

The reason for the major cost for the military research is because these are the most desiered out of all the researches especially military tradition....If you want to protect your colony, it must be worth every penny.

Colonial:
Weather Prediction -
Level 1: C: 15,000 R: Me/100 Org/100 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 240,000 R: Me/500 Org/500 T: 10 hours
Channel Descrambling -
Level 1: C: 10,000 R: A/100 O/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 160,000 R: A/500 O/250 T: 10 hours
Stock Market -
Level 1: C: 25,000 R: A/50 Me/50 Org/50 O/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 400,000 R: A/250 Me/250 Org/250 O/250 T: 10 hours
Commodities Market -
Level 1: C: 25,000 R: A/50 Me/50 Org/50 O/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 400,000 R: A/250 Me/250 Org/250 O/250 T: 10 hours
Advanced Architecture -
Level 1: C: 5,000 R: M/50 O/50 S/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 80,000 R: M/250 O/250 S/250 T: 10 hours

The reason for these researches being cheaper, is because they are colony aides, they help develop the colony alot faster and more efficiently. plus Commodities market helps clean up the excess resources.

Another thing, The time it takes to research each level it is on 100% research (with no directorship) *example: Advanced Architecture lvl 1 would take 2 hours to complete on 100% research not counting directorship bonus, and the time would go up for a lesser percentage*


the time it takes to complete colonial researches is shown as well, if any questions or criticisim please reply
Last edited by Thavy on Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:06 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Luna
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Post by Luna » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:24 am

I'd vote for anything that improves the current research structure. Getting unusable research on colonies is a waste and often kills colonies. This seems like a good, well thought out idea.

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pbhead
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Post by pbhead » Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:40 am

not sure toonces will go with pick joor researches... but perhaps, research could be influnced by government, and workforce allocation... so...

if you have peeps in military and research... you will prolly get a military tech. while if you have people constructing while researching... it would be more likely for you to get advanced architecture... with harvesting, you increase the chance of harvesting tech.


with a democracy... you would prolly research something free-tradeish... like commoties or stock market... while socialism would prolly give researches that increased the resources the colony lacks... while directorship would prolly increase the chances of researches that start with "advanced"...

maybe... sort of thing.... ish...

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Thavy
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Post by Thavy » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:12 pm

I have updated again on the research guideline....i added that the time to complete the research you have is on 100% research with no directorship bonus

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tsat8994
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Post by tsat8994 » Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:41 pm

[quote="Lev"]

You're telling me that a planet full of people can't figure out how to take care of themselves without having to have constant deliveries? Being able to choose the research that properly compliments a particular planet type would be a great leap forward for planet stability. Adding a premium to the capability of picking and choosing research is a good idea, although free random research should still be made available.[/quote]

I gotta agree here, I mean thinking real world and all if *I* was in charge of a planet that NEEDED Organics to survive I would sure as hell be investing ALL my efforts into making more organics. I get that each planet is different and that is a good thing, so cap it at say a random level per planet. THIS Arctic went to L2 drilling, but that one to L4. You can effort the next level, and it will cost you time, but if it fails then that path is maxed out.

I have an arctic to L5 drilling so oil is now good, btu the other one has a L4 commodities market, swell, I can't even buy the oil I need, btu can sell the excess ore for pennies on the dollar...

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Thavy
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Post by Thavy » Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:26 am

Here is the cleaned up summary. Hopefully it is easier to read and less of a pain for all


Where the research box is at, click on the research box and instead of bringing up the Starpedia page for what researches can be developed, why not bring up a brand new window that would display a GIANT tech tree of all researches.

There will be all level 1 researches available and it would cost either of the following: Cash amount, Resources cost, time or all of the above.
___________________________________________________________________________________________

The tech tree is as follows:

Resource: Strip Mining, Bacteria Farming, Geothermal Refrigeration, Native Plants, Drilling, Spectroscopes, Advanced Engineering, Spice Mining (lvl 1-5 each)
Military: Military Tradition, Advanced Areodynamics, Industrial Complex (lvl 1-5 each)
Colony: Channel Descrambling, Weather Prediction, Advanced Architecture, Commodities Market, Stock Market (lvl 1-5 each)


Each time you want to level a research up to the next level, it would cost you double, then double again or something along those lines, and the time limit would increase each level up.

Research Tree:
C: cash R: resources T: time till completion N: none
M:metal A:anerobes Me:medicine Org:organics O:oil U:uranium E:equipment S:spice
Resources:
Strip Mining, Bacteria Farming, Native Plants, Geothermal Refrigeration, Drilling, Spectroscopes, Advanced Engineering, Spice Mining:
Level 1:C: 20,000 R: N T: 2 hours
Level 5:C:320,000 R: N T: 10 hours
This is what requirements are for all resource researches Resources are a lesser of the other researches although equally important, they are only meant for profit gain and nothing more.

Military:
Advanced Aerodynamics -
Level 1: C: 50,000 R: M/100 U/50 E/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C:800,000 R: M/500 U/250 E/250 T: 10 hours
Industrial Complex -
Level 1: C:75,000 R: M/100 U/50 E/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 1,200,000 R: M/500 U/250 E/250 T: 10 hours
Military Tradition -
Level 1: C: 100,000 R: M/100 U/50 E/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 1,600,000 R: M/500 U/250 E/250 T: 10 hours

Military research is expensive because it is the most important thing a colony could attain, it is invaluable as much as it it useful. you want to simplify defending your colony, it will cost you to do so.

Colonial:
Weather Prediction -
Level 1: C: 15,000 R: Me/100 Org/100 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 240,000 R: Me/500 Org/500 T: 10 hours
Channel Descrambling -
Level 1: C: 10,000 R: A/100 O/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 160,000 R: A/500 O/250 T: 10 hours
Stock Market -
Level 1: C: 25,000 R: A/50 Me/50 Org/50 O/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 400,000 R: A/250 Me/250 Org/250 O/250 T: 10 hours
Commodities Market -
Level 1: C: 25,000 R: A/50 Me/50 Org/50 O/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 400,000 R: A/250 Me/250 Org/250 O/250 T: 10 hours
Advanced Architecture -
Level 1: C: 5,000 R: M/50 O/50 S/50 T: 2 hours
Level 5: C: 80,000 R: M/250 O/250 S/250 T: 10 hours

The reason for these researches being cheaper, is because they are colony aides, they help develop the colony alot faster and more efficiently. plus Commodities market helps clean up the excess resources.

Note: research times are estimated by research being at 100% without directorship govenment usage. the lower the percentage, the longer it will take to complete the research
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Hopefully this is cleaned up enough to where players dont have to sift through all the words.

Another possible feature, on rebangs the prices of the researches could be reduced by 1/2 to compensate for shortened time.

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wroose
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Post by wroose » Wed Aug 13, 2008 8:40 pm

the 10 reasearch limit was one of the worst idea the game developers had come up with.
its kinda unrealistic if you think about it. Since i own the colony, i should be able to make copies of the research page in starpedia and give them to my colonists so they can know about all the discoveries. :D

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toast
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Post by toast » Thu Aug 14, 2008 2:57 am

i think the fact that you only get ten researches, and they are almost random, is an important part of the game.

Without these researches, colonies would have nothing to distinguish them from another. Who wants to invade the same colony over and over again? at least now you occasionally find something you dont see every day.

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invaderzim
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Post by invaderzim » Thu Aug 14, 2008 3:27 pm

just a thought, but to keep it kinda random for toonces and other nay-sayers, AND give us some ability to choose, how bout if we can pick up to 5 of the researchs, and rest are random. that way we can get 5 lvl 1s we like, and hope they level up, or get your absolute favorite research lvl 5, or any other combination. i think this is a good idea, because it gives a bit more control to the owner, while still keeping an aspect of randomness.

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ArdRhys4
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Post by ArdRhys4 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:33 pm

invaderzim wrote:just a thought, but to keep it kinda random for toonces and other nay-sayers, AND give us some ability to choose, how bout if we can pick up to 5 of the researchs, and rest are random. that way we can get 5 lvl 1s we like, and hope they level up, or get your absolute favorite research lvl 5, or any other combination. i think this is a good idea, because it gives a bit more control to the owner, while still keeping an aspect of randomness.
hmm, sounds good, cuz the randomness is kinda what keeps it fun:/

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Michael2
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Post by Michael2 » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:41 pm

The only thong i dislike about this idea is the god-damned poll at the top.

"Do you like this idea?"

Needs a little more .. oomph.

Sidenote - Nice idea.

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ArdRhys4
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Post by ArdRhys4 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 1:48 am

change: u choose wat TYPE of research

u no the buttons: discoveries/enviorment
if u click on discoveires, it wil ask u: military, harvest, infrastructure

military is for anything military related(duh)
harvest is for anything that has to do with resources etc.
and infrastructure is for morale, commodoties market, pop, stock market, etc

i think this makes it not COMPLETLLY u choose, but u have a choice to make ur col a military oriented col, a col mde to supplly ur other cols when u build or a xp/money making col, how yu like idea? if someoen lieks it i am making a topic sorri for any mistypeing i did today, i dont have much time

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invaderzim
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Post by invaderzim » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:38 am

would we be able to change between researches? like we set to harvest, get spice mining or whatever lvl 2, then switch to infrastructure and get commodities market lvl 1 and stock market lvl 3, then switch back to harvest and get something like Native Plants lvl 4?

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Thavy
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Post by Thavy » Tue Aug 19, 2008 2:48 am

boy an old idea brought back from the dead.

If my memory serves me correctly it goes like this:

Military
Harvest
Planetary

You decide to research strip mining, you would aquire lvl 1 after meeting some of the prerequisites, then if you wanted weather prediction, you would switch it and meet the prerequisistes, and then have lvl 1 weather prediction, so you would have used up 2/10 researches, then you could go back to harvest and gain strip mining lvl 2 and meets its prerequisistes, and then have strip mining lvl 2.

i believe that answers your question.

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Post by Catfish » Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:24 pm

no no no.
everyone would have military trad. lv5 and then it wouldnt matter what else.
toast is right, random research is what makes every col different from each other.

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