Ground Zero

[MastrIan]

I wasn't specifically referring to you bardock. I have read and heard that phrase from a multitude of people, not necessarily on the forums but in the media and in conversations with people in real life. My point was to question at what time could Muslims, living in NYC, build a place of worship/community center to accommodate their needs, before it is no longer considered taboo or inappropriate?

It has been 9 years since the tragedy of 9/11. Is it being suggested that not enough time has gone by to allow a group of individuals, who detest and abhor the actions of a few extremists who misinterpret and pervert what they believe, to build their place of worship where they so choose? This is akin to a German descendants who want to build a German community center in Poland in the area that happens to be near where the Auschwitz concentration camps of the Nazis was located. Would it be inappropriate for this group, who share some similar physical features and genetic descendant makeup to want to congregate because they superficially resemble, but fundamentally differ from another group who had a completely separate set of ideals and values?

Maybe so. Perhaps it's a matter of geography. The tens of thousands of Muslims who live in NYC that deserve the right to congregate and pray and be active in their community, should perhaps have a certain radius around Ground Zero where they can do this, regardless of the convenience or inconvenience to them. What distance is appropriate, 3 blocks, 10 blocks? Maybe it should be considered inappropriate to let them build it in NYC altogether, I mean after all that is the city that the tragedy occurred in. My point is if there is an invisible barrier to exercising a fundamental and constitutionally guaranteed right who is to decide where this suddenly no longer becomes "inappropriate". It is either right to grant them what they are entitled to, or wrong to deny a group that is not connected to the terrorists of 9/11 what they deserve.

_______________________
Thorin | Save The Rebangs

[MadAce]

most cultures

Prove it.

And define "The American Way".

[MegaMan]

Honestly, for all I care they build a 500 feet high mosque right smack dab on ground zero.

The people that are going to be offended by this are incapable of logical reasoning anyways. You'll probably offend them anyways one day while you're trying to do something utterly logical.

Completely agree.

Also: It's not a mosque, it's a community center. And it's being built blocks away from ground zero.

There is absolutely no reason why it should be considered this slightest bit "inappropriate." None.

[MadAce]

And define "The American Way".

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Unless America existed since the dawn of man it's kinda the things everyone strives for.

Sad how it's marketed by the US but they suck so much at it.



They suck so much at life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness they'd be "offended" if someone were to build a place of worship. Pathetic, init?

[Saber-Fury]

In all honesty I couldn't care less about muslims or their religions, and I don't care much that their building a synagogue near ground zero.

/facepalm

and he wonders why no one listens to him

[-PLAGUE-]

In all honesty I couldn't care less about muslims or their religions, and I don't care much that their building a synagogue near ground zero.

/facepalm

Ah yes your right sorry, mixed that up! nice catch

[-PLAGUE-]

In all honesty I couldn't care less about muslims or their religions, and I don't care much that their building a synagogue near ground zero.

/facepalm

and he wonders why no one listens to him

Sheesh I'm so terribly sorry!

[Major]

A little thing the United States of America got right:

The separation of church and state.

...and lookie this, some other countries thought this was a pretty good idea as well.

http://www.euresisnet.eu/Pages/Religion ... LGIUM.aspx

Shame about all that Roman Catholicism being taught in your public schools...and those other 5 religions. (poor mormans)

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between Church & State"

-Thomas Jefferson, Another fat stupid American Slave owner that love hims some Jesus!

Build a Mosque on the moon, or the 500th floor of the new tower, just pay your f-ing taxes like every other American that lives and works here.

[MadAce]

Wait, what?

Whenever someone non Belgian brings up Belgium I get quite confused.



Oh and I went to various "catholic" schools for most of my school career. And I honestly think the tiny catholic influence was an enrichment. I'm not Christian.

[Major]

Wait, what?

Whenever someone non Belgian brings up Belgium I get quite confused.



Oh and I went to various "catholic" schools for most of my school career. And I honestly think the tiny catholic influence was an enrichment. I'm not Christian.

I assumed your confusion was why time/space went all funny a few moments ago.

I could have said Moldavia or Paraguay in retrospect.

[MadAce]

Wait, what?

Whenever someone non Belgian brings up Belgium I get quite confused.



Oh and I went to various "catholic" schools for most of my school career. And I honestly think the tiny catholic influence was an enrichment. I'm not Christian.

I assumed your confusion was why time/space went all funny a few moments ago.

I could have said Moldavia or Paraguay in retrospect.

Indeed. To run this simulation I need quite a bit of concentration.

By all means, use Belgium. Someone has to...

[WeGotDeathStar]

Stick to making these Ace..........................

[SiN]

Mosques are built in areas that muslims think they are victorious. Hence the reason why the one being built near ground zero.

I'm amazed at how many Americans this doesn't bother, we have such a short memory span. As a New Yorker I am still outraged as to what happen on 9/11 and because of political correctness this mosque bullcrap became an actual issue. It should have never been considered and any union worker building it should be ashamed of themselves.

Sounds like someone watches too much Glenn Beck...

A little thing the United States of America got right:

The separation of church and state.

...and lookie this, some other countries thought this was a pretty good idea as well.

http://www.euresisnet.eu/Pages/Religion ... LGIUM.aspx

Shame about all that Roman Catholicism being taught in your public schools...and those other 5 religions. (poor mormans)

"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof", thus building a wall of separation between Church & State"

-Thomas Jefferson, Another fat stupid American Slave owner that love hims some Jesus!

Build a Mosque on the moon, or the 500th floor of the new tower, just pay your f-ing taxes like every other American that lives and works here.

^^ This. I will admit I thought it poor taste for them to build it there. But I have no complaints about it.

[MadAce]

Stick to making these Ace..........................

I'd rather have us stick to making these.





And this.

[WeGotDeathStar]

OMG MadAce has weapons of mass destruction........tell our president.......he will send in predator drones to fix this.......

[WeGotDeathStar]

They do have the right to build it anywhere they want but the decision to build it there is what the problem is.

Muslims have said that they wish to mend things towards the American public after what happened on 9/11, yet we are led the believe that they are a religion of peace when it clearly states in the Koran that "infidels must be killed" In case anyone didn't know, we are the infidels.

Wasn't anyone in the Muslim community thinking when they decided to build that mosque where it is? They had to have known it would piss people off, to me it is being done as more of a statement not just to build a house of worship.

While they have a right to build it most of their culture has proved they wish to practice religion in a foreign country and not assimilate to that countries customs. Everyone else did for the most part and that is how our country got built.

[Major]

They do have the right to build it anywhere they want but the decision to build it there is what the problem is.

Muslims have said that they wish to mend things towards the American public after what happened on 9/11 source?, yet we are led the believe that they are a religion of peace when it clearly states in the Koran that "infidels must be killed"
In case anyone didn't know, we are the infidels.

Wasn't anyone in the Muslim community thinking when they decided to build that mosque where it is? They had to have known it would piss people off, to me it is being done as more of a statement not just to build a house of worship.

While they have a right to build it
most of their culture has proved they wish to practice religion in a foreign country and not assimilate to that countries customs.
Everyone else did This is an absurd comment for the most part and that is how our country got built.

Have you read the Quran? As for your "kill the infidel" points, if we were to debate I could counter with a few old testament lines.
Do you have any Muslim/Islamic friends? Are you just making your assessments based on ignorance, fear, misinformation, and the Fox News network?

Here's a new perspective for you: http://www.voanews.com/english/news/a-1 ... voa17.html

[MadAce]

They do have the right to build it anywhere they want but the decision to build it there is what the problem is.

Muslims have said that they wish to mend things towards the American public after what happened on 9/11, yet we are led the believe that they are a religion of peace when it clearly states in the Koran that "infidels must be killed" In case anyone didn't know, we are the infidels.

Wasn't anyone in the Muslim community thinking when they decided to build that mosque where it is? They had to have known it would piss people off, to me it is being done as more of a statement not just to build a house of worship.

While they have a right to build it most of their culture has proved they wish to practice religion in a foreign country and not assimilate to that countries customs. Everyone else did for the most part and that is how our country got built.

"Muslims have said". See, there's the problem right there. "Muslims" aren't a unified group at all. Nor are Christians or Hindu's nor any group which consists of millions or even billions of individuals.

As for what the Qur'an says... This depends entirely on personal and cultural interpretation. They've been interpreting and studying that book for 1400 odd years, you know.
Hence why you'd be wise to consider the fact that a lot of Qur'an's come with a Tafsir, a sort of commentary.

The verses you're referring to are usually quoted out of context. Thus misunderstood.

If those verses actually called for the eradication of all unbelievers then I must say the Muslims did a pretty pis poor job. While they actually had every opportunity in for example the Mughal Empire, the Ottoman Empire and the various large Caliphates which contained enough infidels to have eradicated. They strangely enough weren't.



No one in the Muslim community (in as far as it exists) should have anticipated offending anyone as being offended by this project is completely and utterly irrational.

BTW, you claim there is a condition for exercising freedom of religion. No such condition can be found in the US constitution.

[mcdfatty]

I don't mind it... but it is definately innapropriate to those who died in the WTC tragedy.

[MadAce]

it is definately innapropriate to those who died in the WTC tragedy.

Why?

[Major]

If its just a praying space, and not a full blown mosque whats the harm? It's not like Muslims aren't blatantly just saying: "haha, our extremist division of our religion pwned your little towers, we are teh l33t!!!!"

And the killing of infidels only applies to the Muslim extremists who attacked us in the first place.

If it was a Jewish extremist who did 9/11 I'm sure you would hate Jew's as much as you hate Muslims now.

please source who "you" is.

[Major]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/11/22/new.yo ... google_cnn

This pissed me off a bit.

I like the social service aspect of it. ...and if it is funded through private donation and fundraisers: great!

May Allah/God/Chemical-chance bless them and their families...just don't ask the city (which recently closed half a dozen firehouses and schools near Ground Zero) or the fed for ANY funds to build what amounts as a church.

Most churches have similar programs in most places every where in the country...and they get not a dime of fed money.

"Park51 has not launched a formal fundraising program and is currently in the process of expanding its Board of Directors to plan, manage and oversee such efforts," said El-Gamal, adding that the project has not yet applied for federal tax-exempt status, but plans to do so "in the coming weeks.

...they asked the fed for millions already, and are going to apply for tax exemption.

I call bulls hit