New Patch

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Faint
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New Patch

Post by Faint » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:21 pm

u took exp gains out of kills in champs. And basically handed every exp whore on permas a set of balls. Toonces has changed something that was working fine and everyone was happy with for 7-8 years...you keep doing this stupid BBQ instead of things that matter...idk man ur game is fun but you are really smoking some good BBQ.

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Major
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Re: New Patch

Post by Major » Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:51 pm

everyone is going to have 1 bil xp.

might as well set the cap at 1 trillion.

...or just remove xp on permas completely.

...or the best idea yet. return to monthly resets and let them whore achievement points.

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Re: New Patch

Post by avitohol » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:08 pm

Major wrote:everyone is going to have 1 bil xp.

might as well set the cap at 1 trillion.

...or just remove xp on permas completely.

...or the best idea yet. return to monthly resets and let them whore achievement points.

Resets were weekly dude

duece
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Re: New Patch

Post by duece » Thu Dec 01, 2011 10:44 pm

Faint wrote:u took exp gains out of kills in champs. And basically handed every exp whore on permas a set of balls. Toonces has changed something that was working fine and everyone was happy with for 7-8 years...you keep doing this stupid BBQ instead of things that matter...idk man ur game is fun but you are really smoking some good BBQ.
The system wasn't working fine at all for permas. Exp completely misrepresented who's been successful, and as a result it was meaningless. The amount of followers you have multiplied by how long you had them is the only way that makes sense. If someone spends 2 years building up exp from followers, and one day they die invading a colony, how does it makes sense to erase 6 months? It sucks that the current leaders have such a head start now, but for new permas, invaders and fighters will be represented more in the rankings.

And on extended bangs it was taking invasion off the table for any (smart) person who was competing for a high rank.

For rebangs it only comes into play for someone with over 500k exp. I don't play rebangs at all, but how common is it for someone with that much to actually be found and killed? It doesn't seem like that would be that common of an occurance.

I didn't see a need to reduce the exp lost from death, but it's not a big change at all to go from 25% lost from death and 20% gained from kills, to 20% from death and 20% for kills.

Really the only problem with this is that it's a rule change that will mess with all the games currently going (and it probably should've been delayed to after the champs). But after enough time passes exp will be more representative of what's actually happened on a server.

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Faint
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Re: New Patch

Post by Faint » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:29 pm

i agree with the 100k cap loss etc..i dont agree with changing the factors of the gains and losses. Also having something to lose makes things more epic and keeps you on your toes. Toonces man shut down sge for a few months remake the fkin thing and bring us SGE 2.0 and be done with all of this crap.
Last edited by Faint on Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Saber-Fury
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Re: New Patch

Post by Saber-Fury » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:30 pm

duece wrote:But after enough time passes exp will be more representative of what's actually happened on a server.
I don't play anything other than permas so I can't speculate on the impact this patch would have on anything else, but in regards to permas, I disagree. It will just allow more people to get more exp. It helps current exp whores keep their exp, and also will allow everybody else to have shitloads of exp.

Here's some relevant math:

Let's assume that on permas, a player dies once per day. Even that seems like a high average to me. But we will use it. Let's say they have 500k followers and at least 500k exp. That's imo, a sub-standard number for someone actively playing -Just trying to encompass both ends of the spectrum in my calculations. 500k followers is 250k exp per day on a perma. so they die every day and lose 100k exp. They still gain 150k exp per day. 150k x 365 = 54,750,000 exp. That is the minimum anyone playing the server actively would have after a year. Now some people don't die as much, and some have many more followers. Even someone having 1 mil followers for a year isn't a stretch. They'd have over 100 million exp after a year. And many people play the same perma for at least a couple years.

As the years go by, tons of people will have tons of exp. Perhaps proportionally exp will be slightly more balanced, but everyone having so much of it won't increase it's value. It may even become more worthless. What I'm saying is inflation will happen.

A follower-based achievement system with the removal of exp from permas seems like the way to go.

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Re: New Patch

Post by JesusRocks765 » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:38 pm

Thats a lot of EXP o.O

duece
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Re: New Patch

Post by duece » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:50 am

Saber-Fury wrote:
duece wrote:But after enough time passes exp will be more representative of what's actually happened on a server.
I don't play anything other than permas so I can't speculate on the impact this patch would have on anything else, but in regards to permas, I disagree. It will just allow more people to get more exp. It helps current exp whores keep their exp, and also will allow everybody else to have shitloads of exp.

Here's some relevant math:

Let's assume that on permas, a player dies once per day. Even that seems like a high average to me. But we will use it. Let's say they have 500k followers and at least 500k exp. That's imo, a sub-standard number for someone actively playing -Just trying to encompass both ends of the spectrum in my calculations. 500k followers is 250k exp per day on a perma. so they die every day and lose 100k exp. They still gain 150k exp per day. 150k x 365 = 54,750,000 exp. That is the minimum anyone playing the server actively would have after a year. Now some people don't die as much, and some have many more followers. Even someone having 1 mil followers for a year isn't a stretch. They'd have over 100 million exp after a year. And many people play the same perma for at least a couple years.

As the years go by, tons of people will have tons of exp. Perhaps proportionally exp will be slightly more balanced, but everyone having so much of it won't increase it's value. It may even become more worthless. What I'm saying is inflation will happen.

A follower-based achievement system with the removal of exp from permas seems like the way to go.
Those are are really good points I hadn't thought about. But I think the monthly rank sort of takes care of it. Basically the difference between rankings that reset and followers depends on how long the reset takes. If the monthly reset happened every day instead, the result would be almost identical to just ranking based on followers. So, is the monthly rank inadequate? The way it is now you'd have a total exp page, which sort of represents the entire history of the server, and the monthly page which represents the current time.

Also the exp inflation thing is a good point, I think it would get worse as people approach the limit. As people approach the 1 billion mark they'd get squished together, and it wouldn't look good. Maybe some sort of logarithmic scale with no cap would work. Like a system where up to 100 million exp is normal, and after that you have to double to get to the next 100 million. So 100m would be 100m, 200m would be 200m, 300m would really be 400m, 400m would really be 800m. I don't think you can avoid that the numbers will get large, but if the rankings represent success over the history of the server (maybe it shouldn't), and someone spends 3 years to get to a certain level, it should take a similar effort to pass them.

I think it works out if people accept that one is a historical rank and one is a current rank. The mantra on permas has always been that exp is worthless, but I think that just reflected a problem that it didn't represent anything meaningful. It's not gonna be perfect, but if it just kind of represents how well a person has done, people will respect it.

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Re: New Patch

Post by SiN » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:01 am

Xp will never reflect anything meaningful on a perma. Though if I uderstand you, people now only lose 100k xp on a death? What's the point of killing anyone anymore if isn't to watch them moan about how much xp they lost? I feel like (assuming im understanding this properly) on permas you took another fun factor out for the people who log in from time to time to hug with people and in the end less people will play the game.

Or maybe I should stop typing and get back to drinking

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mArImBa
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Re: New Patch

Post by mArImBa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:51 am

So now we have practically 15 PAX permas. Fun!

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Re: New Patch

Post by omlow » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:38 am

exp means nothing on permas. so this 100k cap shouldnt effect perms other than superficially.

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mArImBa
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Re: New Patch

Post by mArImBa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:26 pm

so why change the system then?

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omlow
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Re: New Patch

Post by omlow » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:36 pm

because on IGH it will enable the higher players to actually play without needing to worry about dying and losing a lot of time worth of exp.

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D-Tox1
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Re: New Patch

Post by D-Tox1 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:43 pm

Disgusting .

You plan a Champs game for 11 months - get to the game then whole " set-up" changes.

Wanna know what bugs me is this : I've wanted to compete in this years Champs so much, to try to achieve top - my plan was to Build slightly away from Sol - then invade / possibly kill guys above me .. gaining 1/4 their Exp.
Because of my original Plan being build 8/10 hops from Sol - this drained my Fuel - but i always knew in back of my mind that either myself ( or one of guys helping me ) would kill the few above me. - That was the Plan.
You CANT change a Plan 6 days into the game when a new Patch is thrown in .. especially one that means Player kills are worthless - I mean now even invading you don't get exp from Laser kills - so why invade ?
So .. my plans down the pan .. as is many others that PAID to enter Champs .

Its fine for Top 3 guys that already have 15-20k exp lead.. they know they aint gonna lose much even if they die -- Toonces has created another Pax Championships.
Bluntly - if i had known this patch was gonna be thrown in - id have adjusted my approach to suit it .. maybe Sol built.

Congratulations Mr Hunter - 2 objectives reached during this years Championships.
1) enable Pax Champs Corp to accumulate $96 million Corp worth due to various glitches - /salute H.Plinkett - he deserves win anyhow.
2) Ruin 90% of PK Champs entrants chances of winning - because of erratic idea about Perma issues .

Had it now ..
Seen enough to make my Stomach Churn ... /apologies to Chef, PJ , Caine, Joel.

/salute Bernie

/Salute Chico .. these 2 guys chose their Original Plan wisely on PK Champs ... Toonces latest glitch has basically secured one of these 2 the Gold already after only 5 days gameplay.



/slap Toonces

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mArImBa
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Re: New Patch

Post by mArImBa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:44 pm

SO CHANGE IT ON IGH, ONE SERVER!!!!!! WHATS YOUR PROBLEM WITH IGH??? GO PLAY IT AND STOP WHINING HERE!

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Major
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Re: New Patch

Post by Major » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:48 pm

i was referring to the monthly rankings system we currently have and adding the xp resets of old, while also removing permanent xp altogether on permas only.

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mArImBa
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Re: New Patch

Post by mArImBa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:55 pm

better yet, lets delete everybody that doesn't log in every day or build atleast 2 cols per day.

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Re: New Patch

Post by avitohol » Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:59 pm

D-Tox1 wrote:Disgusting .

You plan a Champs game for 11 months - get to the game then whole " set-up" changes.

Wanna know what bugs me is this : I've wanted to compete in this years Champs so much, to try to achieve top - my plan was to Build slightly away from Sol - then invade / possibly kill guys above me .. gaining 1/4 their Exp.
Because of my original Plan being build 8/10 hops from Sol - this drained my Fuel - but i always knew in back of my mind that either myself ( or one of guys helping me ) would kill the few above me. - That was the Plan.
You CANT change a Plan 6 days into the game when a new Patch is thrown in .. especially one that means Player kills are worthless - I mean now even invading you don't get exp from Laser kills - so why invade ?
So .. my plans down the pan .. as is many others that PAID to enter Champs .

Its fine for Top 3 guys that already have 15-20k exp lead.. they know they aint gonna lose much even if they die -- Toonces has created another Pax Championships.
Bluntly - if i had known this patch was gonna be thrown in - id have adjusted my approach to suit it .. maybe Sol built.

Congratulations Mr Hunter - 2 objectives reached during this years Championships.
1) enable Pax Champs Corp to accumulate $96 million Corp worth due to various glitches - /salute H.Plinkett - he deserves win anyhow.
2) Ruin 90% of PK Champs entrants chances of winning - because of erratic idea about Perma issues .

Had it now ..
Seen enough to make my Stomach Churn ... /apologies to Chef, PJ , Caine, Joel.

/salute Bernie

/Salute Chico .. these 2 guys chose their Original Plan wisely on PK Champs ... Toonces latest glitch has basically secured one of these 2 the Gold already after only 5 days gameplay.



/slap Toonces
Lol dude there are methods to get around this. For example making sure they don't have followers to gain exp. Remember un cols dish out no exp. But their built and defnded cols on the other dish out quite a bit.

But yeah kinda rough on the people trying to win the champs. Avi just wants a bronze since he has no idea what to do on a rebang :P

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mArImBa
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Re: New Patch

Post by mArImBa » Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:03 pm

and for I bet tokens sell will plummet because newbies won't buy deaths anymore.

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D-Tox1
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Re: New Patch

Post by D-Tox1 » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:52 pm

You wouldn't expect to play in the 2012 Football World Cup Finals - then go 1 - 0 down in the first half from a Penalty decision - then get told that as from 2nd Half of game that penalty's don't count.....
My issue isnt the fact that he's done it - its the fact why the hell did he have to do it 5 days into a freekin' Champs game ?.

Some of us have waited all year to play this - then it comes round and the Goalposts moved.

Honestly .. could he have done it at a worse time ?

NO.

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Saber-Fury
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Re: New Patch

Post by Saber-Fury » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:07 pm

Sort of responding to deuce and making some more general points at the same time:

was talking with altair today and we had a good discussion. Two things we agreed should be done with regard to the new patch:

1 ) reset all existing experience on permas to 0.

EITHER a ) reduce exp from colonies on permas to pax amounts, (would be 75% less than it is now) OR b ) remove the 1 bil exp limit and the mitigation to it which would result in the exp cramming.

If the exp from cols was reduced, we'd have much lower exp levels, so we wouldnt have to worry about everyone crashing into the ceiling; exp would MEAN more, but still be proportionally representative. if the limit on exp was removed along with the mitigation of it, the ceiling would be raised, so everyone would have high amounts of exp, but the people with the most cols would have insanely higher amounts.

Personally I like option a better.

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Faint
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Re: New Patch

Post by Faint » Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:49 pm

toonces just needed to nerf me before i killed everyone on champs.

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Re: New Patch

Post by JesusRocks765 » Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:04 am

D-Tox1 wrote:Honestly .. could he have done it at a worse time ?

NO.
Good concept, bad timing.

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AKA Copler
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Re: New Patch

Post by AKA Copler » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:28 am

just another one of toonces many screw ups :lol:

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GRAWRG.
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Re: New Patch

Post by GRAWRG. » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:09 am

why is $96 mil the number being thrown around? that sounds about right, but not even i know the exact amount of money i made off that glitch, and i was corpless for at least half the trading... and didnt trade the cash all at once.

96 is a made up figure.

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CrazyChef
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Re: New Patch

Post by CrazyChef » Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:25 am

/agree with tox

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